When is the right time?

[dlots]

When I was hired into that department I was hired cause I could get along with anyone, had a nack for picking stuff up, and the network engineers couldn't get along with anyone, or get anything done, so within 2-3 years I went from not knowing what a router or switch did to a CCNP doing the majority of the work.

[deanwebb]

After today's meetings, I'm tempted to flip out and call the recruiters BUT...

Someone, somewhere, in the company I'd wind up at, is tired of putting up with all the crap going on over there.

A day of bad meetings does not make a justification to start a job search. Probably also not a week. A month, though... maybe yes.

[killabee]

I tend to leave when the problems I'm facing are beyond my control and the people I've informed about the problems (i.e. managers) aren't doing anything about it.  I've left past jobs because of lack of leadership (e.g. managers with no balls), lack of ownership, or lack of direction.  I love my job, love what I do, and I'm an overachiever.  But sadly my passion coupled with the issues above are a recipe for personal disaster!

I'll admit that I've thought about taking a break from IT and trying something different...but at the end of the day I really love tech.

One of my biggest pet peeves is who I'm surrounded by. If you are going to hold the title of "Engineer" I expect you to have a certain level of base proficiency right out of the gate. I never like to see someone lose their job but you do need to be motivated to learn more about your trade. In my experience the guys that don't want to learn are the first ones to call you in the middle of the night. If management can't come to grips with what needs to be done I start my exit plan.

One of the guys on my teams says that he can't troubleshoot a certain technology because he "hasn't received training on that product yet."  Neither did the rest of us and we have to support it.

Sometimes I wonder if the better skill to learn is the skill of not giving a shit, underachieving, playing dumb, and not take any initiative on anything...

@deanwebb: Why didn't you go into private schools? Are the education politics the same?

[deanwebb]

Last thing first: Private schools either pay less or have lots more pushy parent politics. Or both. If I was drawing a state pension, I'd do private school.

Sometimes I wonder if the better skill to learn is the skill of not giving a shit, underachieving, playing dumb, and not take any initiative on anything...

That's survival, right there, and it's not pretty. But it is what a lot of guys "that have been here forever" are good at doing, even though the managers wish that they would be real go-getters.

Problem is that the go-getters care about things, which is why they go and get, and that eventually bangs heads with managers when they need someone to *not* care because they've cut a budget and are going with fast and cheap instead of fast and good... or they're hammered by a schedule because they're going for good and cheap.

Managers always want fast, cheap, and good, and passionate guys get into arguments when they tell the truth and say "you can only have two." The guys with broken giveashitters, they plod along, don't feel pressure from managers on cost or timelines, and are kept on staff because all the passionate guys quit and all the managers got fired.

Thanks to that1guy15 for giving us the term "giveashitter". It's really catching on around here.

[NetworkGroover]

When I was hired into that department I was hired cause I could get along with anyone, had a nack for picking stuff up, and the network engineers couldn't get along with anyone, or get anything done, so within 2-3 years I went from not knowing what a router or switch did to a CCNP doing the majority of the work.

Yeah - so sounds like the typical situation... I'm assuming you had that pay the entire time.  Damn shame, but they make their own bed so at one point or another they'll have to sleep in it. 

[Otanx]

Someone, somewhere, in the company I'd wind up at, is tired of putting up with all the crap going on over there.

This. The thing to keep in mind is it is different crap, but there is always crap. My previous job there was no budget for anything. We were running 2600 routers, 3550 switches, and what ever else we could cobble together. However, I was the final say on anything networking as long as the end user got what they needed. Even my boss didn't care as long as nobody was yelling at him. My new job has plenty of budget, and we work with cool new stuff. However, the change control process is crazy. Everyone gets a say in the design, and everyone's opinion is considered important and valid. Explaining to a system admin why I don't want to use BGP for a DMVPN solution is painful. Even more painful is documenting the testing I did in the lab to show that EIGRP works better than BGP for this solution.  At some point the "it takes a village" approach will drive me to find a new job, and that job will require me to deal with some different crap which will then eventually drive me to move on again.

-Otanx