Help with Google WiFi

[lecnt]

Hello,

I'm new here so I apologize if I do something I'm not supposed to.

I wrote up a huge message but then I realized that what I really want to ask is this:

What's the best WiFi setup for a completely wired 3400 sq ft, 2-story home with lots (20-30) of WiFi-only devices? Have gigabit internet.

Any help is really appreciated.

-lecnt

[deanwebb]

Good news, that's exactly what I have.

I have a Google WiFi main unit connected to my internet router in my office. (I actually have it connected through a Cisco 3750 switch, but that's another story... logically, it's connected to the router from the ISP, so we'll leave it at that.)

I have the WiFi from my ISP switched off. I don't need any wireless network clutter and I don't want the chance of someone compromising a network that I don't monitor.

Thanks to this post, I now see that the Google Wifi app now works on Samsung Note phones, so yay, I get to test it out. That gives me an idea about the signal strength from the central unit to the other access points. I have three of them.

My house is L-shaped with the office at the corner of the L. The living room is in the middle of the vertical side and the back bedrooms are at the top of the vertical side. The upstairs game room is at the end of the horizontal side. That's where I have the other access points located. I used a different app to check wireless strength from the main unit to help in placing the others. Basically, you want the signal to be around 80% or better for the satellite unit so that it can connect well to the base unit and provide essentially that 80% or better speed for the devices that connect to it. The living room unit is about 25 feet from the base unit and has excellent signal. There is one wall between them, but no mesh or plumbing or microwave oven or anything like that between them. It's another 25 feet from the living room to the back bedroom area, where the master bedroom is located. Excellent signal from that satellite to the one in the living room.

Because the Google Wifi is a mesh and not a signal extender, I only need to worry about the signal to the other access point, not to the base unit. I've used extenders before where I had to set up another SSID that fed into the main one, and those would always be failing for one reason or another. I've never had a Google Wifi failure in the time I've used it, which is about a year and a half.

So far, the three access points I've described are in places that are both optimal for signal strength as well as being out-of-the way places for appearances. My wife doesn't want visible wires at a minimum, and partially concealed gear at best. Living room is on top of a bookcase, master bedroom is on top of a dresser, and home office base unit is next to the printer and, frankly, all my other wires distract from the Google base unit.

Now we get to the issue of the upstairs game room... the best place for signal would be the southernmost wall in the room, as that is practically on top of the office, about 10 feet away. Can I put the unit there and then extend the network to my gaming PC via an ethernet cable streched 30 feet across the room? The engineer in me says yes, and I ask my wife for approval... you'd think she'd want awesome signal in her craft corner...



She's not having the cable across the room. Nor is she into wall plates and pulling cable through the attic. So the Google Wifi got put in the middle of the upstairs game room, on top of a bookshelf full of games. Not excellent signal, but still good.

That was great until the missus walked in, saw the wire going from the access point to the gaming PC. I was like, "Hey, I didn't stretch the wire across your crafting area."

But she has a zero wire policy, so I had to move the access point all the way to the far wall, where the signal was only fair to the base unit. I keep the gaming PC on ethernet because the wifi card on it sucks. Ethernet for desktops, that's my motto and I'm sticking with it. We also have a Steamlink device, so I plugged a small switch into the Google access point and have both the gaming PC and the Steamlink connected to the switch.

Overall, Internet access for all devices in the upstairs game room is great. No buffering video and content downloads pretty fast. When my son is playing competitively, he tends to use his laptop in his bedroom, where the signal is stronger. When he's doing solo games, it's upstairs. The upstairs access point is about 30 feet north of the base unit and about 15 feet higher, so that's about 34 feet away in total distance, but with a number of walls and plumbing in between the two. Signal is good enough, so we don't worry about a solution. If I needed excellent speed up there but without stretching cables, I would add one more access point in the craft area just above my office and that would then do what the living room access point does in terms of providing a fresh source of the signal.

But, yes, the signal is excellent until it isn't, and then it drops off quickly. Your slowest network speed will be the wireless one. That number of wireless devices will be fine, even if they're all on the same access point.

[lecnt]

Wow, thanks for the reply. Sorry for the late response, I lost the site...

The problem I'm having is that even though all of my pucks are wired, they cannot handle all the smart speakers I have when I want them to play music in sync.

If I have no music streaming, I get UP/DOWN speeds of 392Mbps/42Mbps. As soon as I start streaming music from YouTube on all my speakers, the speed goes down to, for example, 3.41Mbps/4.86Mbps (was measured 3 ft from a wired puck) and the music is choppy and cannot sync. Sometimes all I get is "Something went wrong, try again later."

I understand that these smart speakers need to communicate with each other to be in sync but this seems way too excessive. I just don't know if it's an issue with Google WiFi, or just the nature of smart speakers.

[Dieselboy]

Initially this sounds to me like your wifi access points are using the same wifi channel and interfering with each other. So when there is a stream, it is bogging down the system because the individual APs are processing traffic meant for some other AP.

Do you have an android phone? I use this app to check channels and strength: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer&hl=en_AU
Note: The app only works for me if I allow GPS and storage permission, so for this reason I only install it when I need it and then I remove immediately afterwards. Otherwise the app works great.

As a rule of thumb that I follow, use separate channels for all APs:
2.4GHz = use channels 1 or 6 or 11 and if you have to use a channel more than once, then keep it as far away from each other as possible (or reduce the power to lower the range of the cell)
5GHz = all channels are unique so pick a different channel for each AP

Which AP's do you have? Which speakers do you have? Will be handy to know what wifi standard you are using and what the speakers are supporting.

[deanwebb]

The no streaming speeds match what I have in my own home. The issue happens when the speakers fire up, so what kind of speakers are they and do they communicate on their own network or do they all go through the Google Home Wifi? If they are on their own network and it's stepping on the Google Wifi frequencies, that would be a possible issue.

This article, with the app Dieselboy mentioned, will help troubleshoot: https://support.google.com/googlenest/thread/556353?hl=en

[icecream-guy]

I lost the site...

[lecnt]

Thank you for the replies!

I have 4 pucks plugged in right now like this: gigabit internet (more like 600k ) --> cable modem (wifi disabled, bridge mode) --> Google WiFi puck --> 24-port switch --> other 3 Google WiFi pucks and all wired devices.

I tested the WiFi Analyzer app and it seems like two of my pucks do use the same channel. They use channel 1, 6, 6, 11.

From the article it seems like there are only these three channels to use. Can they not use more? It also seems like there is no way to change the channels in Google WiFi. Is there anything I can do to improve my setup?

[deanwebb]

On the 2.4GHz frequency, those are the 3 channels to use, as they are all far enough from each other to have minimal interference.

For the speakers, what's their make and model? I'm interested in seeing what their documentation looks like, as that can give clues for resolving the issue.

[lecnt]

I have a bunch of the original Google Home Minis, a Google Home, a few Google Hubs, a couple Lenovo smart displays, a Nest Mini, and two JBL Link 300s. I think that covers everything. I do have a few Alexa devices as well but I don't ever use them other than when my friend calls on the Show.

[deanwebb]

So, I put on my detective hat and went to https://www.harmanaudio.com/jbl-link-series/JBL+LINK+300.html

Check the first one-star review, the college student's:

I bought this for myself for Christmas last year to take to the university, but it has been an absolute disaster. I cannot play more than 2 or 3 songs without it disconnecting from my computer automatically and restarting. It will very often pop and crackle wildly until it disconnects and becomes a $300 paperweight. Most of the time, I'm not able to use it because it won't function without the Google Assistant set up, and it doesn't allow for any direct aux input. JBL has changed my speaker twice since January after I first reported this behavior, but it has gotten worse; so it was not simply a defective model. I recommend investing in a better speaker that DOES NOT have any of this smart, brittle software.

That seems to fit your problem statement somewhat. There were other, similar reviews. I'm going to guess it's a problem with the JBL speakers themselves, where they don't play nicely when conditions are not optimal - and those optimal conditions may require exclusive use of bandwidth resources.

When I look up about Chromecast problems in general, one recommendation for a fix is a factory reset of the device. Have you already done that? To be sure, that didn't help the college student, but it might help you out.

[lecnt]

This problem started before I bought the JBLs (they were XMas presents).

Also, I have a group called Office that includes a Lenovo display, the 2 JBLs paired in stereo, and an original Google Home. When I stream to this group, it works flawlessly. I do have a puck in my office.

Maybe I still have the issue with the Google WiFi firmware update that certain devices connected to different pucks can't see each other. It seems that as long as all the devices I'm streaming to are connected to the same puck, everything's peachy.

[deanwebb]

Ah, that might be something, there. I generally only stream to devices in proximity to the same puck. I only stream from my bedroom to the upstairs TV when I want my kids to come down and get ready for bed...

[lecnt]

Right, but that's hard to do when implementing whole house audio.

So is there a better solution for this? Should I just use a strong WiFi 6 router instead of mesh?
Or is this a Google WiFi only issue and other mesh would work fine?

[deanwebb]

Mesh is going to work better than repeaters, any day.

One idea would be micro-radio transmission. The transmitter puts out sound and all the satellite speakers receive it simultaneously, no need to sync up, it's just how radio works.

Now, to be honest, I haven't scoped out how to do that or what the costs are, but I did see a few micro radio transmitters out there, so I know it can be done.