CCIE Written VS Lab

[Ironman]

Ok, let's talk about this. We have all seen the blog posts and book lists for CCIE studies. I want to try and clarify a few things for myself and hopefully others.

I know the Lab is obviously A LOT harder than the written. But can someone who has been thru this rate the Written exam in comparison to maybe CCNP R&S? Do I need to devote 4+ hours per day and lock myself in a dungeon to pass the written? Or can I do it with my normal 1-2 hour a day studying books/videos? My plan is to read the Cisco Press CCIE v5 books and watch a combination of INE/CBT Nuggets to get thru the Written. As far as the lab I know I will need to book a flight to a deserted island made of only Cisco equipment and water and stay there for 6-8 months to prep for the lab. . . 

[deanwebb]

From the description: "Exam Description: The CCIE written exam is a two-hour qualification exam, taken at a Cisco authorized Pearson VUE testing center. The exam uses a combination of multiple choice questions and simulations to assess the skills listed under Exam Topics.  Exams are closed book and no reference materials are allowed."

So, looks like *at least* as hard as the CCNP. Given the depth of material, I would study more hours in total than for -P.

But more hours per day? That depends on your personal ability to absorb information. Some folks can read for 4 hours, but only remember 2.

[burnyd]

Written is not as difficult as the lab obviously.  It is simply a ticket that allows you to take the lab.  You can pass the written with some studying and day to day activities. 

The lab you will have to dedicate many many many many many many hours of your life you will never get back.  I have been there 5x between 2 different CCIE studies.

[NetworkGroover]

The written has simulations?  I thought it didn't... damn.  If that's the case I might as well just do TSHOOT over again to recert... don't think I'll be ready in time by December.  Not with my current study habits.

[NetworkGroover]

But more hours per day? That depends on your personal ability to absorb information. Some folks can read for 4 hours, but only remember 2.

Wow... this is so true yet I didn't realize it until you said it.  I noticed that after a while, I start "reading" text, but I'm absorbing nothing.  I get to the end of a chapter and realize that I can't remember anything I just read.

I guess this is why I like to blog what I read about - forces me to exercise my brain and actually apply what I'm reading, but it's so much slower and I'm impatient! .

[wintermute000]

Warning: The IE written is a crapshoot. I've seen it referred to as 'trivial pursuit: Cisco edition' and that's spot on. You may be asked anything from OTV frame formats to the hex value in field XYZ for, I dunno, say IGMP advertisement type XYZ. Frankly speaking its one of the worst exams I've ever seen.... I would not just rely on the OCG even if they have expanded it to two volumes.
Know your multicast, don't forget ISIS, and ALL the routing protocol trivia. stack behaviour too and all the stupid services (how to read the crontab style syntax for EEM for example).

it remains the only technical written exam I've ever had to re-attempt


Everyone has a different approach re: the lab but in general you want to first step through the entire syllabus using someone like IPexpert or INE and do all the individual technology labs, then start putting it together and doing full topology labs / TS labs. I'd say probably 6 months all up IF you can maintain 8-16 hours a week labbing but real life will probably interrupt and stretch that out to 9-12 months. Obviously also depends on your starting point. 

[NetworkGroover]

Warning: The IE written is a crapshoot. I've seen it referred to as 'trivial pursuit: Cisco edition' and that's spot on. You may be asked anything from OTV frame formats to the hex value in field XYZ for, I dunno, say IGMP advertisement type XYZ. Frankly speaking its one of the worst exams I've ever seen.... I would not just rely on the OCG even if they have expanded it to two volumes.
Know your multicast, don't forget ISIS, and ALL the routing protocol trivia. stack behaviour too and all the stupid services (how to read the crontab style syntax for EEM for example).

it remains the only technical written exam I've ever had to re-attempt


Everyone has a different approach re: the lab but in general you want to first step through the entire syllabus using someone like IPexpert or INE and do all the individual technology labs, then start putting it together and doing full topology labs / TS labs. I'd say probably 6 months all up IF you can maintain 8-16 hours a week labbing but real life will probably interrupt and stretch that out to 9-12 months. Obviously also depends on your starting point.

Jesus... this paired with the fact that I won't even use a lot of that knowledge (Especially the Cisco proprietary stuff) is extremely discouraging to even pursue it.. I'm already capable of researching tech as I need to and digging into best practices and analyzing protocol behavior with Wireshark and comparing that to RFCs and/or vendor docs... Grrrr..  I'm really in a funk right now...

[wintermute000]

If you're talking about the written purely as a re-cert vehicle, sure, agree.

If you're talking about the CCIE as a whole, I'd argue that you're focusing too much on the negatives of the written, which does not outweigh the overall benefit of going through the material (both written and (but much more importantly lol) lab).

I've made this point before too in another thread but in reverse (i.e. why study other vendors when i'm in an all-Cisco shop). Just because you don't work on Cisco gear now, doesn't mean you won't have to do so in the future - or worse, have an opportunity slip through because you didn't have those skills. Even if you stay with vendor "A" all your life, you will be doing bake offs and migrations and PoCs till the cows come home, won't it only help if you know the competition better than they know themselves? Finally, BGP is BGP, OSPF is OSPF, STP is STP, PIM-SM is PIM-SM....

I'm sure you're capable of looking up stuff when you need to - that was my attitude too before I decided to get serious about this - however, as I'm nearing the end of the process (booked in Nov 16th... eek), my R&S understanding has improved out of sight. Not to mention the fact that I can now work on IPv6 and Multicast without feeling like a fraud....
Sure you can get to a CCIE equivalent level of knowledge by looking up stuff when you need to - but the point is, pursuing the qualification forces you to actually put up or shut up. The written is just an expensive, irritating pothole yes and has way too much rote memorisation in it yes but I wouldn't let that put you off doing the study for the overall certification.

Though again, to be devils' advocate, in your specific case an in-depth knowledge of NX-OS products is probably more directly relevant - if you wanted an easier but useful path for re-cert, perhaps do some Nexus exams? (though good luck labbing - no layer 2 features in VIRL NX-OS - but INE does have CCIE DC rackrentals) Mind you the DC track is horrifically out of date and I would be so not surprised if they announced EOL and new exams like tommorrow!

[deanwebb]

For me, in the security sphere, there's less chance of being "Cisco All the Way" in an environment, since best practices for security usually involve mixing vendors. CCIE-Security is more of a cert for a VAR, seems to me. But CCIE-R&S *does* cover routing and switching and, like Wintermute says, R&S is R&S for the most part. If you got a CATW environment and then swap a router out with Juniper gear, you won't have EIGRP there, but OSPF and BGP will still be pretty much the same on it. I see a good value in a CCIE R&S, even if you're not a CATW guy.

But security? I've got 8 different vendors to work with right now. We may add other specialty products, but Cisco don't make those. -A or -P level certs make sense for me with vendor gear, but non-vendor certs like GIAC and CISSP make more sense than a CCIE in my sphere.

[Ironman]

^Very well stated Wintermute. I ordered my Books today. Momentum is high for me right now so I'am trying to keep this train rolling.

Good luck next month btw, be sure to let us know how it goes!

[NetworkGroover]

If you're talking about the written purely as a re-cert vehicle, sure, agree.

If you're talking about the CCIE as a whole, I'd argue that you're focusing too much on the negatives of the written, which does not outweigh the overall benefit of going through the material (both written and (but much more importantly lol) lab).

I've made this point before too in another thread but in reverse (i.e. why study other vendors when i'm in an all-Cisco shop). Just because you don't work on Cisco gear now, doesn't mean you won't have to do so in the future - or worse, have an opportunity slip through because you didn't have those skills. Even if you stay with vendor "A" all your life, you will be doing bake offs and migrations and PoCs till the cows come home, won't it only help if you know the competition better than they know themselves? Finally, BGP is BGP, OSPF is OSPF, STP is STP, PIM-SM is PIM-SM....

I'm sure you're capable of looking up stuff when you need to - that was my attitude too before I decided to get serious about this - however, as I'm nearing the end of the process (booked in Nov 16th... eek), my R&S understanding has improved out of sight. Not to mention the fact that I can now work on IPv6 and Multicast without feeling like a fraud....
Sure you can get to a CCIE equivalent level of knowledge by looking up stuff when you need to - but the point is, pursuing the qualification forces you to actually put up or shut up. The written is just an expensive, irritating pothole yes and has way too much rote memorisation in it yes but I wouldn't let that put you off doing the study for the overall certification.

Though again, to be devils' advocate, in your specific case an in-depth knowledge of NX-OS products is probably more directly relevant - if you wanted an easier but useful path for re-cert, perhaps do some Nexus exams? (though good luck labbing - no layer 2 features in VIRL NX-OS - but INE does have CCIE DC rackrentals) Mind you the DC track is horrifically out of date and I would be so not surprised if they announced EOL and new exams like tommorrow!

Well said, and yes, I definitely know there are benefits to be had which is why I've been going through the OCGs here and there... but never in a serious manner.  I'm just struggling with trying to determine if those benefits outweigh the time and effort involved.  I think I'm mostly just thinking out loud - in a typing sense.  I freaking bought the big INE package - I should just keep telling myself that if I don't do it, I just wasted a lot of money... lol.

[that1guy15]

Late to the conversation.

I only took the v4 written and it was comparable to any CCNP level exam outside the fact that you have a wide range of topics you have to be on top of similar to the CCNA.

Everyone I talk to who has taken the v5 written says the same thing @wintermute000 said above. Id suggest pushing your studies beyond the written OCG and blueprint and start working towards the lab. When you get solid in all topics for the written then knock it out.

[Ironman]

Late to the conversation.

I only took the v4 written and it was comparable to any CCNP level exam outside the fact that you have a wide range of topics you have to be on top of similar to the CCNA.

Everyone I talk to who has taken the v5 written says the same thing @wintermute000 said above. Id suggest pushing your studies beyond the written OCG and blueprint and start working towards the lab. When you get solid in all topics for the written then knock it out.

Thanks for the advice! I am excited to get this train rolling!

[NetworkGroover]

Late to the conversation.

I only took the v4 written and it was comparable to any CCNP level exam outside the fact that you have a wide range of topics you have to be on top of similar to the CCNA.

Everyone I talk to who has taken the v5 written says the same thing @wintermute000 said above. Id suggest pushing your studies beyond the written OCG and blueprint and start working towards the lab. When you get solid in all topics for the written then knock it out.

Yeah.. looks like I'll just do TSHOOT or something to recert... thanks.  Won't have enough time to properly prepare for the CCIE Written.